Episode #11. The Role of an SDR in the Sales Process with Sarah Hicks

Episode #11. The Role of an SDR in the Sales Process with Sarah Hicks


The guest of the day is Sarah Hicks.

Senior Sales Development Representative at Predictable Revenue Inc. She helps b2b companies grow faster and with more predictability through outbound sales.

Sarah has been with the Predictable Revenue for a year and a half. During this time she mastered outbound prospecting and managed to exceed her quota even during the most difficult periods.



Predictable Revenue™ Inc. — Outbound Sales Development.

What will you learn?

  • About the role of an SDR in the sales process;

  • What are the best KPI’s to support an SDR role;

  • Skills SDRs need to have to be successful in their job.


Michael: The last time we talked you said that you'd been on the job for a year and a half or something like 30 months.

Sarah: Year and a couple of months. That's right.

Michael: I wanted to start with you defining what the SDR role is, and how does the SDR fit in the sales process.

Sarah: Yeah, absolutely. So the SDR is the first point of contact for any cold prospect in outbound. Their sole focus is on creating outbound opportunities. The way they have to fit into the organization is they obviously have to know their ideal customer profile and they have to know the offering, services, products like the back of their hand, and then what they've got to do from there is within that ideal customer profile, they have got to search for pain, generate interest, develop brand awareness or brand trust for the company, and then they've got to create and nurture these relationships with these prospects and then hopefully if they can do that, they can qualify the prospect and then introduce the prospect to a closing member of their team.

So the SDR within the revenue team or the sales team has the responsibility to the account executives to book great meetings, take great notes, make clear opportunities, make sure that the prospect actually shows up for that next call with the AE and then they kind of need to stay in touch with the AE to make sure everything's on track.

When they're doing that, they need to stay in touch with their manager to know where the manager wants them to focus their outbound activities, to know any changes in strategy or approach. They need to stay in touch with the marketing team. Often marketing teams will be supplying warm leads, email signups, webinar signups, that kind of thing, and then stay in touch with their fellow SDRs to learn from each other, find out what's working and what's not, share what's working for them.

Michael: So when does the SDR role start, the SDR job start? From the time when you have a list of prospects or you generate the list yourself and when the job is completed, when the call happens, when the AE takes the call, or after that there will be some touchpoints as well?

Sarah: Sure. So initially I think sometimes an SDR will be building their own lists and sometimes they'll be provided with lists. So as I mentioned, staying in touch with marketing. Often marketing will provide some lists for me and I'll go after those people, but sometimes I'm building the lists for myself, so that can kind of vary. In our case, we have a research team as well, so the data team might provide me with a list. It varies there. And then in terms of the conclusion of the SDR's role when that meeting is actually attended. So I've booked the meeting for the account executive and they've actually shown up for that call. They were the right person. That's now in the hands of the closing team to take it from there and I can wash my hands with that prospect.

Michael: Why did you decide to try yourself in this role?

Sarah: I come from a background in the arts and performance. I went to theatre school and I kind of wanted to be in a role that would exercise the skills that I gained in that part of my life. So things like being able to think on your feet and having good communication skills, and being able to take direction and also being able to take rejection. I find that an audition is not dissimilar from a cold call or even a qualification call.

You have to be able to handle objections, keep a good attitude regardless of the way that someone is speaking to you or regardless of their response, and then the empathy and knowing the human condition allows you to navigate conversations, matching tone, all that kind of stuff. So I wanted to, as I mentioned, work in a field that my job would benefit from those skills that I already had, and luckily our company as well is massively supportive of our outside lives.

So I'm able to keep performing while working with our company so it's kind of perfect and I'm able to do things like this podcast that we're doing. I'm able to help Colin when he does our Predictable Revenue podcast. So yeah, I really feel like my skills lend themselves to sales, but I'm also able to bring the arts in other ways.

Michael: So do you think that these soft skills that you mentioned, do they just predominantly yours or do you think that ideal SDR candidate should have those skills?

And I wanted to touch base on the good as they are hired later on. But since you already mentioned this, so what soft skills do SDRs need to have to be successful at their job?

Sarah: Absolutely. So I think the number one thing is, as I mentioned following directions, so being coachable. So you've got to learn to listen to your managers, listen to executives, listen to teammates to hear what's worked and what hasn't and be able to follow their lead initially. Especially if you're starting out as an SDR for the first time and you don't really know how to prospect. That's the number one thing that you're going to need to be able to do is just follow that direction. And then from there, it's about being creative and agile.

So once you've got this foundation, you've learned everything you can from your peers and from your managers, that kind of thing. Then it's about being creative. With outbound prospecting, there is no cookie-cutter solution. There's no template that's going to get you great responses every time. There's no exact that's going to get you great responses every time. So it's really about testing out different things, seeing what works, seeing what doesn't, and keeping moving, keep on trying different things. If you fail and they don't work, that's totally fine. Pick yourself up and try again.

Michael: Do you think that there should be a person that should be an extrovert or introvert? Should the person have prior experience in sales?

Is it a true sales role, or it's more like a sales/project manager role when you deal with other departments, or it's a marketing role as well where you create gains and crop sequences, or is it a writing role? So which one would you say that sprawl fit into in terms of personality?

Sarah: So I think in every organization, the SDR role is going to be slightly different depending on what the marketing team looks like. If there's a research team if the manager's the one building sequences, that kind of thing. So for that reason I think not necessarily being an introvert or an extrovert would be the way to identify a good SDR, but rather if they are motivated, are great communicators and are empathetic, can read people.

We've definitely got people on our team that are really fantastic SDRs that are great on the phone. I have one colleague who has an amazing radio voice. Yeah, smooth talker. He sounds like he's 45 on the phone and he's 21 and I think he'd probably identify as a bit of an introvert.

But he's absolutely a fantastic SDR because he is a great communicator, can communicate ideas clearly, concisely and then great at reading people and matching the tone and matching demeanor and that kind of thing. And then absolutely motivated to do everything he needs to do in order to hit quota. So I think those are kind of the pillars personality-wise, that along with the follows direction and coachability that make a great SDR.

Michael: I share with you the majority of the pillars cause that's exactly what we are looking for when we hire SDRs here at Belkins. Talking about motivation, we would need to start with KPIs and targets.

What are the targets that were set up for you within Predictable Revenue and in general? What's your take on how should the KPIs or targets look like for SDRs?

Sarah: So in terms of my own targets, my quota per month is 10 meetings attended and usually that looks like around 12 meetings booked. There's the odd no-show of course, so 12 meetings booked usually translate to 10 attended. And in terms of other KPIs, in terms of a number of calls, a number of emails, that kind of thing, I don't really have any of those metrics set out for me.

I'm fortunate to be given a lot of freedom within my role to kind of achieve that quota however I can and in a way that kind of suits my particular skill set. So I don't actually have exact numbers on the amounts of calls or the amounts of emails that or LinkedIn touches that go into that.

Michael: So the main target for you for a quarter is like 12 booked meetings per month or 10 attended calls?

Sarah: Yes. Attended calls are the most important.

Michael: So it's a very easy way to set up a KPI for the SDR. You supply all the tools, everything that an SDR would need to achieve the quarter, and you just set up a goal and say, okay, you need to book 10, and then it's easy to measure, right?

But I've seen that very often happens that you book calls for an AE and the AE takes to call one, two, three, four a month, and your average sales cycle is let's say three months. After the three months, the AE is not closing and then he'll say, well, I'm not closing because I do have calls. They do have a pipeline, but Sarah books call and she's very persistent so the prospect gets on the call with me, but they're not very cool per se.

Would you say that maybe it makes sense for the SDR to have the incentive to get a percentage or get a bonus from actually the closed deal, or you just need to focus on the main quarter and then if you exceed the quarter, if you book 15 calls instead of 10, should they be compensated more just on that or based on the closed deals?

Sarah: So I think one of the ways that we mitigate that issue that you're talking about if I was able to convince people to get on those calls, but they didn't necessarily actually want to move forward, as SDRs at Predictable Revenue and the way the Predictable Revenue methodology looks at the SDR role is that the SDR has the initial call where they're actually qualifying the prospect.

So we let the prospect know the different offerings that we have. We figure out if they're a fit for the company as a whole, don't necessarily pigeon hole them into any specific offering. But it's my responsibility to provide them with enough information that they know that we're a fit. And then also basically sell the idea of the next call as being an opportunity to learn more about what we would be able to do from an expert.

So when I'm extra persistent and I manage to get people on the call with me, if they don't want to move forward, they don't go onto that next call with the account executive. So generally speaking they're pretty warm when they go to the account executive. That being said, I'm sure some people just don't like to say no and they end up on that call. But that's how we look at that. And then in terms of compensation for closed deals, I think they're definitely are benefits to that. It does incentivize the SDR to book really great quality meetings that are more likely to close, but the onus then is on the account executive to do that closing.

And so the converse to the example you gave where the AE is saying my deals aren't actually closing cause the SDR is giving me bad opportunities, the other side of that is I as an SDR is giving you great opportunities. I'm not getting the percentage of the closed deal revenue because you're not good at closing. So I think to have the SDR's compensation solely be based on what is tangibly their own work - the meeting attended, they booked a great meeting that fits the ICP. It has to be accepted and attended by that account executive, but then it's out of their hands.

Michael: And to mitigate this kind of problem where the AE is not communicating with the SDR, should it be like a round-robin in terms of meeting booking or you should be dedicated to one AE? Did you see that there is a difference?

Sarah: In my time at Predictable Revenue, there have been times when there have only been one AE, times that there have been multiple and we do generally stick to just alternating between them. There has been talking of potentially specializing AEs into particular service offerings or something like that. At this point, it's not really necessary.

I think the best way to do it for a team like ours is just to be alternating those opportunities, and it generally works out to be quite fair. If you end up giving five and five to the account executives.

Michael: And do you think that there should be any additional compensation or incentive if you exceed your quota, like book more appointments. Would that be fair?

Sarah: I do think that's fair and that's also something that we do at Predictable Revenue. They call it an accelerator, so you've got your quote, you've got your set compensation per meeting booked within that quota, and then anything above that, we get one and a half times the commission. I think that's a great and fair incentive to push harder because it is still these sales accepted meetings and these attended meetings, the quality won't suffer if the reps are pushing for more.

Michael: If we consider the SDR to be a part of the sales team and in sales, usually the compensation is built on base and the bonus, and for the AE, we structure that the AE is making 25% to 40% base and then the rest is pure commission. What should it be for the SDR? Should it be 50/50? Should it be 75/25? What's the ideal ratio there?

Sarah: I do think that they should be higher, weighted higher than the commission. I think particularly for the SDR role because you're having to do a lot of work upfront before you see the results. I haven't actually experienced any other structure where it's weighted the other way, but I believe that for any job, the wage alone should be liveable. And then of course your compensation should be a bonus beyond that and an incentive to work.

But I think in sales there's so much fluctuation in the market at a time like this. So we talked at the beginning of the call, have we seen a dip? We have been one of the companies that has been hit really hard, and nobody actually responded to our emails for three weeks and I was not able to hit my quota. Would it be fair for me to now not be able to pay my rent because my base is a quarter of when I'm earning my on-track earnings. I don't know. I think it should always be a kind of liveable base and then it's bonus on top of that.

Michael: Fair enough actually, and we've seen that that's the rule of thumb on the market to have that kind of compensation.

Sarah: There was one thing that I did want to mention just around compensation, and I know that there are different things that motivate SDRs to work hard and to hit their quota and that kind of thing, and while monetary compensation I think is a huge part of it, I think there are other things that push SDRs, and the other things being career mobility within a company and then the company culture.

And I think it's the combination of the compensation structure, the ability to move laterally or however they want to move, whether there's an upward trajectory, whatever that might be, and then just the culture that exists in the workplace, the support that they have from their managers, from their, fellow SDRs, that kind of thing. It really is a combination of all three.

If I was working in a workplace where I made really high base and then excellent, huge amounts of money in compensation, but it was not a fun place to work and I didn't feel supported by my peers or there was a competition in an unhealthy way, it wouldn't make me happy and it wouldn't make me motivated and wouldn't make me want to stay at that company. So while money I think obviously is a key motivator, because we live in a capitalist society so absolutely it has to be. There are other factors at play.

Michael: You mentioned career path and company culture. Let's talk about those two. So career path, career growth for the SDR. So where to next in the SDR role? What's next for the SDR?

Sarah: So that can depend depending on kind of the size of the team, size of the organization, that kind of thing. If you come on as a junior SDR, your first move is probably to be an SDR and then to be a bit of a resource for some of the more junior people in your team. There is the ability if you have a big enough team to become an SDR manager.

Sometimes that will be a player/coach role where you'd have maybe a smaller quota and also be supporting your team. Sometimes it would be fully a management role. But the kind of the other track and I think potentially a more common one for a lot of people is to move into an account executive role. And this is actually something that I spoke to James Buckley. He also does some podcasts and has a lot of content on LinkedIn, but he and I talked very, very early on in my career. He's been a sales development manager for most of his career, for a long, long time. And he explains to me that he thinks there's a massive gap in sales basically for female sales development managers.

Because if you kind of takes a look at the female distribution through companies, they are more heavily on the marketing side or they move from SDR to account executive. But it doesn't seem that there's a lot of female sales management. So I think for my sake at least I might try to lean into the SDR manager track if I can to bridge that gap a little bit.

Michael: That's great. Do you think that SDRs have enough training and experience by holding the SDR job to be qualified for an AE job because it's a bit different role in terms of you're not closing, so you need to know how to close.

You need to know how to build business relationships on a higher level when you actually deal with multiple decision-makers and dealing with the consultation and the payments, all of that, which SDRs do not typically do on a daily basis. So do you think that it makes sense more for AI to try herself as a sales exec first and then go to the AE, or you think that the SDR, especially in Predictable Revenue is more than qualified to be an AE in the future?

Sarah: I think that probably depends on the proximity that the SDRs have to be AEs within their organization, and how to open those lines of communication have been throughout the SDR's career. I know that for us, obviously we're all working remote now, but when we were all in the office, the entire revenue team, which is the AEs, the sales manager and the SDRs, we all work in one little section of the office. So all of our desks are facing each other.

So if I was sitting there doing my email tasks, I can hear the closing calls happening on either side of me. And so I'm able to kind of absorb the language that they're using, the strategies that they're using to kind of work their way through a lot of the conversations, the objection handling, all that kind of stuff, the more high-level conversations than I would have been having, but I do think there is going to be quite a lot of training that would need to happen. You were mentioning writing proposals and dealing with multiple decision-makers and organizing payments and that kind of stuff.

That's definitely what would need to be taught, but I think because one of the most important characteristics of an SDR is to be coachable, they'll be coachable as an AE as well, so it shouldn't be too drastic a transition if they're able to kind of absorb and learn from the team around them. If they're given an opportunity to slowly work their way into an account executive role, like maybe take a couple of those calls or take smaller deal size calls or whatever that might be it. I don't think it's too tough a jump in the right organization, but I do agree that maybe a more intuitive move for an SDR would be to be an SDR manager or something like that because it is just more an organizational or management version of the role they've already been doing.

Michael: You've mentioned that you have different qualifications of SDR within Predictable Revenue, like a junior SDR and senior SDR. So basically the job is the same, the responsibility is the same. It's just that senior SDRs will be overseeing some of the juniors and helping in training, and so on and so forth. Are there any additional responsibilities that you are taking on as the senior SDR within the organization?

Sarah: There would be nothing set, no additional set things that you'd have to take on. But I think one of the things that you would do as a senior SDR would be just making yourself available to support in more areas than maybe when you were junior because you're obviously focusing on honing your abilities as an SDR and it's going to take up more of your mental capacity and that kind of thing.

And once you know the role really well, you know exactly what you need to do in a month to hit quota, and you kind of free up a bit of your bandwidth. I think that's when the move to senior makes sense and when you then can lend a hand to the junior members with training, or you can help other teams like what we're doing now, like the podcasts.

Podcasts are sort of the marketing and our CEO's realm, but I love to do this and now I've got the time now that I know how to do my job. Now I've got the time to be able to do stuff like this, and you also I think have more time to experiment with different strategies while as a junior SDR you've had to stayed with tried and true methods because you have to make sure that you hit your quota, but once you really know-how, then you can start to experiment.

Michael: Creative, being creative. Yeah. My thoughts are about the training. I mean you were talking about this and I was like, okay, what should the training look like for those SDRs? So what does the training look like in Predictable Revenue for people that are starting out on the job? Do you guys have like a month of vigorous training, like one-to-one, something online or how is the training process structured for the SDR?

Sarah: So we've got a lot of documentation around the process. Obviously, at Predictable Revenue, we're fortunate because this is what we help other companies do so we're in a better position to train our SDRs than a lot of other companies that are maybe scaling that up on the team for the first time. But yes, we've got a lot of documentation playbooks, that kind of thing. There is a bit of a ramp process, like the quota in the first month will be none. Just try to learn and then three meetings, five meetings, up like that.

Maybe a three to four-month ramp period before they're at full capacity. But I think it's very hands-on at Predictable Revenue. It's not a lot of reading literature online. I remember I think on maybe my second day in the job, the SDR manager at the time asked me to take a look at our case studies on our website. Pick one of them. Figure out what type of company that was, what industry they're in, what defines that company as a good customer, go to Google, try to make myself a list of similar companies. Go into outreach.io, build me a sequence that included cold calls and everything, and then try to reach out to them.

I got zero replies in my first sequence and I was so scared to do the cold calls and we even just sent one unsolicited calendar invite just to see if the guy would accept after he had ignored all my emails. And I remember I was so embarrassed because he declined it right away. And then I saw him at SaaStr when we went last year. I was like, Oh gosh, I hope he doesn't recognize me. Of course he wouldn't, because he just didn't read any of my emails. But I think it has to be pretty hands-on. It really is. The only way to learn is through practice, and I'm still learning new things every day and figuring out what works and what doesn't. And because of that all changes so frequently, there's no set manual you can just read and then be a great SDR.

So you've got to just start sending emails, start making calls, start reaching out to people on LinkedIn, watch podcasts like this one. There are tons of great sales thought leaders to follow on LinkedIn and they put out a lot of great content. So a lot the of the time spent training initially was listening to the podcasts that we'd done with guests, listening to external podcasts, and then just trying to take it all in and try to build sequences from there.

Michael: Being the first week on the job, it must be scary. You don't know how the email should look like if I'm doing something correctly. Am I addressing the customer's concern or objection correctly, so on so forth.

So do we have like mentorship or someone checking in, is on hands-on with you and checking every email and you need to BCC that person, or you have a Q and A, someone that is doing a Q&A every day or something? How does the time in Predictable Revenue for the new SDR look during the first week?

Sarah: So I was sitting right next to the sales development manager and luckily then able to just turn my head and ask a question whenever I needed to, but he would give me kind of an outline of what I needed to do and then I would check back with him when that step was finished or when that task was finished, and he would do a little overview, check that everything was the way it was meant to be, suggests some changes, that kind of thing. And then I'd move on to the next step.

So it would always be kind of, he would lay out the map for me, allow me the space to try and potentially fail on my own and then give me the guidance, and then I would move on to the next step. It's definitely nerve-wracking, I think if you don't come from experience in the field, but having somebody there with you, having someone that's ready to answer your questions and is friendly and supportive and has done this themselves a few years ago and really understands what you're going through I think is really, really helpful. In terms of a remote workforce and training people in right now, I think you can do the same. I think you just need to schedule frequent zoom calls and be ready on Slack to answer any question and pop into a call at a moment's notice if need be.

But I think it's that combination of trusting the person that's training in to be able to give it a go on their own while also being there to hold their hand when that need is there.

Michael: My next topic of discussion for you is from my SDR team. I asked my new SDRs to read Predictable Revenue book by Aaron Ross every time. The new person to the job, here's the hard copy of Aaron Ross' book. Read it. Did you read the book or not?

Sarah: I read part of the book before I interviewed for the role because it was a friend of mine who let me know that the job was available and helped prep me for the interview and stuff. And I think if you open up the book, it says here are the chapters that you should read if you've never done this before.

You should read the whole book if you have, and I skipped right to that part cause I was like, alright, I need some kind of overview. And then I went in for my interview and I think it was maybe the second interview where Colin Stewart asked me had I read the book. And I was like, okay, I can't lie. I can't say I have because he'll ask me something and I won't be able to answer it. So I was like, I only read four chapters. And he was like, do you never finish things that you start? And I was like, Oh God. He was just joking. And since then I have finished the book.

Michael: So the question from the team is, so all of my SDRs will be listening to this once we release the episode, so I've heard that you've been bidding down your KPI and achieving like 130% of your targets for the last few months. Why do you think you were able to do that? Why are you successful at this job? And then the second part of the question - it will be like a two-part question - is what is done at Predictable Revenue and what do you think needs to be done to maximize the SDR efficiency to get 130% every time?

Sarah: So I think for a lot of people that read Predictable Revenue as you guys do, and then they kind of base their sales funnel or their KPIs, that kind of stuff on the content of the book, a lot of things have changed and we're the first people to say that some of the content in that book is no longer true. One of the huge points in that book was that email was cold calling 2.0. No longer the case. Email is now an overused channel so there's some adjustment that needs to happen there. And that is one of the ways that I was able to achieve 130% quota.

So basically I was always keeping my eye out for different podcasts, different strategies that were interesting to me to try new things and it was actually a podcast by Beck Holland who is with Chorus. She released a podcast with Scott Barker on personalization at scale and she has her team. It's quite a big team doing an account-based approach, and when they do the research on the prospect, they look through their LinkedIn profiles to find the content to personalize with, and then the most important thing they're looking for is if that person if the prospect has either posted an article or posted something or has engaged with someone else's post on LinkedIn. So I looked at that and I thought that's really great. That makes a lot of sense.

But I found that when I was researching a list of prospects that I had, often they weren't very active on LinkedIn at all. So it was kind of tough. I was like, well, I can't just say I see you went to this university, that's not enough and she mentioned that. She says that's the last bucket that you should draw from, the first one is what I mentioned. So I decided to reverse the process and rather take an existing post by a thought leader that had a lot of engagement.

Look through the list of people that have engaged, commented, liked, and then see who of those people fit my ICP and prospect them, because I knew already that they had the engagement or that they've made the post. And I followed a pretty simple template. It's the same template that Beck speaks about in that podcast and we have a podcast that is about this whole process if anyone wants to know more, but basically in a pretty easy, templatized way that was pretty scalable and repeatable. I was able to make what were very personalized emails to people and I was getting a really, really high response rate.

I think the very first one I ever did was like 95% open rates, 35, 36% response rate and while a lot of those were positive, a lot of the responses were actually like, wow, this is not a fit and not the time, but that's a really good email.

And so that was nice because you usually just get to spam, no thanks or an ignore. That was the way that I was able to sort of finding a strategy that worked for me that was scalable and when using that strategy in tandem with a bunch of the ones that I had been using and that was tried and true for the organization was able to hit. Yeah, 13 meetings for that month and we're still using that. Our other SDRs are still using that strategy because it's worked really well.

Michael: You'll send me the link and I'll attach it to the description below the episode for people to listen to the podcasts where you were in detail discussing this topic, ABM. And also I'll attach the podcast. What was the podcast that you said with some other folks that you quoted just now?

Sarah: Yeah, it was Beck Holland and Scott Barker personalization at scale.

Michael: Okay. I'm going to attach that.

Sarah: And later on in mid-April, Beck and I are actually going to do a podcast where we go into it together and break down how exactly to do these sequences and we'll give kind of really actionable ways to do it. The podcast we both did was more high level, the ideas around them but yeah, we're going to be doing a partner podcast to basically provide SDRs with the actual templates and the actual ways to do this themselves. So keep an eye out for that as well.

Michael: Beautiful. All right, so we can wrap this up by my last talking point here. The company culture at Predictable Revenue. How does it look? Are there any specific company culture things that you guys do within the company that just stand out that they'll say, hey, we do this and no one else is doing this?

Sarah: I think our culture is very unique. Speaking to my friends, if I talk about what a workday looks like for me versus them, they're always like, can I work there? Sounds great. So I think culture is really one of the priorities for Predictable Revenue as an organization.

The people are the most important thing, not the products, not the services. And then the attributes that those people have kind of are really the most important thing. When we look at our list of values as a company, they're all tied into the person so things like own your growth and take the work seriously, not yourself, that kind of stuff. So it starts with the hiring and our hiring process is pretty rigorous.

There's obviously the traditional aspects of it where we're checking resumes and checking references and that kind of thing, but a huge part of it is called the culture fit, and that's where the person actually comes into the office or remote and meets the entire team that they'll be working with and plays a game. And usually what we've had them do is teach the game so we can see how they kind of behave in a group if they're having fun if they can communicate ideas clearly, all that kind of stuff. And I think that is a very, very important first step.

And then from there, we do a lot of things to maintain the culture. We have a weekly 'Beers, Cheers and Tears' meeting at the end of every week where each team goes around and talks about their wins and their losses for the week and we all have a beer or whatever. So that's a nice way to end the week coming together and hearing from all the different teams, and it's also kind of fun and light-hearted.

Actually, I think a lot of our culture has become very evident in the past couple of weeks when we've all of a sudden had to be remote because that could potentially be something that would really knock the culture and knock morale.

But all of the executive team have done a really exceptional job at maintaining the culture. So for instance, our revenue team has a weekly or every single day, all week first thing in the morning meeting to check in and just chat. It's not necessarily a work meeting; it's just a hangout. It's like let's talk about what's going on. Let's get back on the same page, cause that's what we would have done in the office, told our stories from the weekend and chatted and all that kind of stuff. And at that time recently we watched Marvel races. I don't know if you've seen - those have popped up because there are no sports. So we each picked a Marvel and we watched our Marvel races. Mine won, probably not a coincidence and we are doing like MTV Cribs where every day somebody shows their whole living space on their phone like MTV Cribs. So yeah, making a huge effort to kind of keep the culture going there.

Our CEO, we have a weekly check-in calls with the entire company, our CEO and our chief product set up a games night for Friday evening where they scoured the web to find something that 55 people could each play from their homes together so that we can have the equivalent of hanging out after Beers, Cheers, and Tears as we would have in the office.

Michael: Let me jump in here. What's your favorite game? Can you recommend any games for my team?

Sarah: I don't know what it's called, but it's a drawing game where everybody sits in the same room and one person gets prompted to draw something, and then as they're drawing it, everyone else has got to guess what it is. I'll look it up. I think maybe it's just called the drawing game.

Michael: The drawing game, right?

Sarah: Yeah.

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